Music Talk Board

(02-23-2013, 09:25 PM)Danjo Wrote: [ -> ]Not heard of the extra books or the other part?

Actually I had misunderstood; what you said was what I meant.

(02-23-2013, 09:25 PM)Danjo Wrote: [ -> ]And I think the major problem with Christianity (this coming from a christian) is that not only are some christians inherently assholes, some people think that having a religion makes them entitled to be an asshole. I don't get that. The creator of the universe sends his son to earth to live as a human, and most importantly DIE as a human ON A CRUCIFIX. He did that in order to save a bunch of people who repeatedly do exactly the opposite of what he wants them to do, just because he loves them. And what people take away from that is that they're supposed to tell everyone how much God hates them? What?! Where did that even come from?!

I agree. People generalize way too much, it's really sad. Unfortunately, even though the Bible-thumping, racist, homophobic Christians, as well as The God Delusion-thumping, close-minded Atheists, represent a very slim minority within their groups, they're the ones who are the most vocal.

I don't understand. The more arrogant and ignorant people tend to be the loudest.

There are unfortunately some "Christians" out there that are in my opinion extremely un-Christian. I've known some non-Christians that are "holier" than members of the church. Heck, I'm not a Catholic anymore and I, remaining as modest as possible, think of myself as closer to one than my little brother, who claims to be one, but never goes to church, curses his parents under his breath when they ask him to do chores, is self-centered, lazy, lies, is jealous of me, and doesn't want to accept the aspects of himself he should improve on.

However, I've observed a larger percentage of curmudgeonly atheists, personally. For example, I have not read The God Delusion, but from other things Dawkins has said that I have read, I'm convinced the man has a 9-foot pole up his ass. He's arrogant as shit and I can't really take him seriously either (I heard that he said he was superior to Mother Theresa because he has children, and that we shouldn't teach philosophy in university because it isn't scientific). Yet, he's the most respected atheist today. Stick the f*ck to biology, man.

Some atheists that are cool: Asimov, Russell, Kant (though he pretended to be a theist), to name a few.

I also believe you can be against gay marriage and not be a homophobe (I'm for it, though, because even though they can't get married in most Christian churches and thus could at least marry legally, I see nothing immoral about it, especially considering they're not going to change their sexuality anytime soon). Plus, I have biblical support to believe homosexuality is a-ok.

(02-23-2013, 09:25 PM)Danjo Wrote: [ -> ]I think you should love everybody. The world doesn't need more hate, that won't make things better. All the world needs is a little love.

Yes, we seriously need to spread the love, and get people to accept each other despite their age, ethnicity, religion, political affiliation, gender, sexual orientation, and so on. Unfortunately, we're all jerks to a certain extent, and are biased towards certain people or opinions. I know this because I do have biases that I need to neglect. Every time a dark-skinned individual sits down next to me, my brain keeps telling me "I'm not racist I'm not racist I'm not racist" :lol:

Many people are ignorant, arrogant, and bigoted, and those three aspects shape a vicious cycle. If you're arrogant, you remain bigoted. If you're bigoted, you remain ignorant. Ignorance makes you arrogant.

Instead of getting mad at people we deem ignorant, we should teach them, while remaining perfectly civil.

y'know, when i read your guys's discussion ITT i sometimes find stuff that i want to add to or that i feel like i want to correct, but then i remember i'm shit with expressing myself in text and i don't bother :P

Lol, it's cool mang, as long as your intention isn't to be part of those 7 billion cunts :p

I think people also have the wrong idea about how tolerance works. (Or at least how I think it should work. This is all my opinion.) Tolerance is not about how many people you can hate because they aren't being tolerant, or about how many people you can feel better than because you're more tolerant than them. Personally I think tolerance is about not getting mad, at anyone, for any reason, ever. Because thats what I try to do. (Doesn't always work, but I try.) But I also think that sometimes its okay to be intolerant, in fact its important sometimes, when things are wrong, and you need to stand up for what is right. Thats being intolerant, which is why people say "I will not tolerate this." So yeah, thats my say on the matter.

I agree, but i also think tolerance is about learning to live with the fact that there are other people out there with other ways of life.

And while you may think they're doing stuff wrong or immoral or whatever, as long as they don't hurt anyone else you have no say on the matter.

I had more stuff to say but i can't find my way with text that well :/

I agree that there are things you can't just sit through and that you have to stand up against; doesn't make you intolerant.

Intolerance also isn't just hatred, it's ignorance-fueled hatred. You're also the better man if you don't stoop down to their level and hate them back.

As for what Adam says; I agree, morality is far more important than belief, and I'm coming to believe that morality even precedes belief more often than not. A good Christian will be good, a good atheist will be good. The same can be said about evil people.

The issue with "as long as you don't hurt anyone in the process" is that there are gray areas, such as when it comes to abortion. Pro-choice advocates will tell you that it's immoral to tell a woman she can't terminate a pregnancy if she wants to, whereas pro-life advocates will tell you that abortion is equivalent to killing a baby that is three years old.

The funny thing about "pro-life" people though, is that a big part of them are for the death sentence and wars

But yeah, since morality is a human made concept there are and will always be gray areas.

Yeah, well I don't think theres anything wrong with saying "I don't agree with that." But thats really about as much as you should do, unless it is in fact hurting someone. Sometimes people say stuff like "Well its not hurting YOU, so you don't have any say.", but if someone is hurting someone else I think you should probably at least try to do something about it. Sometimes anyway, everything in life is case by case.

:lol: well said. However the pro-life arguments my dad gave me make quite a bit of sense. Despite that, I'm on the fence regarding that debate. I think we should look at individual cases rather than a broad scheme of things.

I'll also agree on the human-made concept part. Even if say, the Bible tells the truth, everyone interprets it slightly differently than the next guy. I might think some lies are acceptable, for example to protect someone innocent or not to offend someone, whereas my neighbor might be entirely against lying (who knows, maybe he's a Jain lol).

EDIT: @Danjo I agree, if someone involved is being harmed, you should put your foot down, whether that person is you or not.

As to protecting someone's innocent i'd say it's important that it'll be moderated, you don't want a 5 year old kid to learn about the horrifying stuff out there, but you don't want to send someone to the world without him knowing what's out there.

And it's not only an age thing, it's depends on the person and the circumstance