http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/17/world/asia...-porn-law/
So apparently Japan finally bans
possession of child porn. They outlawed production and distribution of it in 1999, but apparently you could still own it until now. Go figure.
Though the article has a different topic it's focusing on, that I'm ambivalent towards, there's still controversy over the fact that pornographic manga/anime depicting
very young girls in not only X rated activity, but also in violent sexual activity (Maps probably recalls some of this in that manga I sent him that goofy 30 year old posted on his own profile).
While I find that shit pretty disgusting, and really creepy, it's considered "freedom of expression" and since they're fictional characters, you're not seeing an actual person getting hurt. There's definitely people in Japan trying to correlate this type of porn to violent sexual crimes, and child abuse, similar to how the US is trying to blame Grand Theft Auto on school shootings.
I feel like I should put my personal feelings aside towards the content, as I only don't like it around because I think it's gross, but I don't feel that's a good enough argument to make something illegal. Also I do feel like it'll be a bit hypocritical to say that this stuff links to child abuse, but defend violent video games when they're basically using the same arguments.
Thoughts ppl?
I myself am having problems rationalizing whether me (and perhaps others) merely disliking something is worth making it illegal. I dislike douchebags, but they have the legal right to cheat on their girlfriends and compensate for their small dicks by driving cars that could have fed entire families for a year in their monetary worth.
Actually, I've been thinking the whole child pornography thing, even fictionalized, just about an hour ago. If we have freedom of speech, does that immediately make it unconstitutional to ban someone from owning or making child pornography, especially if it is illustrated?
The fact is that although no people actually (intentionally) get hurt in making violent games or movies (as opposed to child pornography), I still think it's kind of disturbing that violence is considered "fun" or "entertaining" and that violence in general is glorified in the media. Despite this, and knowing that statistics show that since the original Doom, there seems to be a correlation between the creation of more violent media and less cases of real-world violence (which is additionally disturbing as it means that some people are merely taking their angers onto fictional worlds), I don't think we should ban violent imagery (hell, if we did that, we'd be banning a good chunk of the Old Testament), except perhaps in certain extreme cases. That's just my two cents on the subject of violence. As for your subject, I've never really thought of it much in comparison, but maybe simulated child porn is a lesser evil than the potential molestations that could happen due to some pedophile's frustrations that could probably be alleviated with media. It's still disgusting and disturbing, but on a societal level, it's perhaps better.
I don't know. Non-sexual violence and sexual violence aren't explicitly the same, so maybe you can't even compare the two. Perhaps it will turn out that making child pornography legal would do the opposite effect of legal violent imagery and get pedophiles wanting more.
I'm interested in knowing the point of view of everyone else, though.
Whatever the case may be; if a political party campaigned an election with lifting such a ban, and saw a massive increase in voters, I'd say there'd be something pretty wrong going on in that society.
(06-18-2014, 03:39 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]While I find that shit pretty disgusting, and really creepy, it's considered "freedom of expression" and since they're fictional characters, you're not seeing an actual person getting hurt. There's definitely people in Japan trying to correlate this type of porn to violent sexual crimes, and child abuse, similar to how the US is trying to blame Grand Theft Auto on school shootings.
I feel like I should put my personal feelings aside towards the content, as I only don't like it around because I think it's gross, but I don't feel that's a good enough argument to make something illegal. Also I do feel like it'll be a bit hypocritical to say that this stuff links to child abuse, but defend violent video games when they're basically using the same arguments.
Thoughts ppl?
I pretty much agree with you. I have a similar view on this as I do on hate speech laws: you can't make being an idiot illegal, but I don't have an issue with banning hate speech that actively encourages violence towards whatever groups.
With this, it is freedom of expression, so we shouldn't ban it except in extreme cases where the material is actively encouraging this sort of abuse.
(06-18-2014, 05:58 PM)ln cognition Wrote: [ -> ]Whatever the case may be; if a political party campaigned an election with lifting such a ban, and saw a massive increase in voters, I'd say there'd be something pretty wrong going on in that society.
I also agree with this though. I find this sort of thing disgusting. If it (fictional CP) was illegal I wouldn't defend any movement to legalise it, to be honest.
(06-18-2014, 06:18 PM)carlcockatoo Wrote: [ -> ]I pretty much agree with you. I have a similar view on this as I do on hate speech laws: you can't make being an idiot illegal, but I don't have an issue with banning hate speech that actively encourages violence towards whatever groups.
With this, it is freedom of expression, so we shouldn't ban it except in extreme cases where the material is actively encouraging this sort of abuse.
The link has a video, and I agree with the manga artist (well he doesn't draw porn) but he says there's no scientific proof that this stuff is encouraging child sexual abuse, but if they can find evidence, then he'll be right on board.
So until further evidence comes out saying you'll turn into a child rapist for reading this, despite finding this stuff gross and creepy, there isn't much of a reason for it to go away.
It's kinda interesting to observe my own response to this discussion. My POV seems to be pretty similar to the rest of you, but every time I try to write out a relevant addition to the discussion pointing it out I end up erasing it.
Combined with this (which totally reflects my views):
(06-18-2014, 06:18 PM)carlcockatoo Wrote: [ -> ]I also agree with this though. I find this sort of thing disgusting. If it (fictional CP) was illegal I wouldn't defend any movement to legalise it, to be honest.
I'd basically be unwilling to work for something I'd believe to be right* because the nature of it disgusts me. Which obviously should be a very bad attitude, and yet I feel no remorse for my resistance to changing it...
Anyhows; the act of cannibalism isn't in itself immoral or with due hygiene detrimental to society. Therefore it's current illegal state is a gross injustice, and a failure of democratic society.
Discuss
*Hypothetical clauses being there for a reason
Late response: I would never back cannibalism, but I get your point. :p
Blog post:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28121198
This issue is still making me rage. An anti-immigration protest is one thing but when you're stopping buses full of people who may be killed if they are sent back and telling them to be 'get out', it's almost like a personal attack.
(07-10-2014, 04:20 AM)carlcockatoo Wrote: [ -> ]Blog post: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28121198
This issue is still making me rage. An anti-immigration protest is one thing but when you're stopping buses full of people who may be killed if they are sent back and telling them to be 'get out', it's almost like a personal attack.
Wow. What the hell.
(06-18-2014, 06:18 PM)carlcockatoo Wrote: [ -> ]With this, it is freedom of expression, so we shouldn't ban it except in extreme cases where the material is actively encouraging this sort of abuse.
Late reply to this as well, but would that include say, banning the release of films (or words) like
Innocence of the Muslims, on the grounds that it enables or inspires violence in countries like Syria? The film, as far as I know, did not explicitly
encourage violence (if anything it condemned it by condemning what was perceived to be an inherently violent religion by the director -- I don't know, I haven't seen it) but it did anger radicalists in the east to the point that they blew up an American embassy and killed diplomats, and reactionary takfiri terrorism
has occurred numerous times in the past because of free expression, which can include Islamophobia (such as in the case of Draw Mohammed Day in Denmark).
Thanks to WWF's spanking thread, I'm kind curious about spanking causing serious complications. Everybody I knew growing up were spanked, and most of my college friends said they were spanked, and everybody is normal, so I'm curious if it's really a serious thing, or it's blown out of proportion. Kind of like how anti-circumcision people try to convince you babies are constantly dying and your dick no longer works.
(07-10-2014, 06:05 PM)JoelCarli Wrote: [ -> ]Late reply to this as well, but would that include say, banning the release of films (or words) like Innocence of the Muslims, on the grounds that it enables or inspires violence in countries like Syria? The film, as far as I know, did not explicitly encourage violence (if anything it condemned it by condemning what was perceived to be an inherently violent religion by the director -- I don't know, I haven't seen it) but it did anger radicalists in the east to the point that they blew up an American embassy and killed diplomats, and reactionary takfiri terrorism has occurred numerous times in the past because of free expression, which can include Islamophobia (such as in the case of Draw Mohammed Day in Denmark).
My overall opinion on hate speech laws is that it should only be an illegal act when it is actively encouraging violence. I only watched a ten minute excerpt from that film when the attack first happened, but what I saw felt blatantly Islamophobic. I'm on the fence about this stuff. I wouldn't be too upset if this kind of thing was prohibited from public use, but I don't if making this sort of thing should be a criminal offence, especially if it's just ignorance. I do understand not wanting this stuff to be publicly used because there are detrimental effects towards members of society (especially racial, LGBT, etc. groups because those are things you can't change, while with Islam they could be attacking the ideology rather than Muslims themselves. That wouldn't count as hate speech to me). Hate speech is in a way libel on a large scale, but I don't mean that as if we should press charges against every idiot who makes a racist comment (countries that have hate speech laws don't do that, hence the National Front, etc., which is why I lol when people accuse France or wherever of being a totalitarian state). I do not believe any of this should be censored to prevent attacks though. By that point, it's the terrorists who are in the wrong. Attacking an embassy is obviously way worse than publishing a dumb, Islamophobic film.
(07-11-2014, 12:04 AM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks to WWF's spanking thread, I'm kind curious about spanking causing serious complications. Everybody I knew growing up were spanked, and most of my college friends said they were spanked, and everybody is normal, so I'm curious if it's really a serious think, or it's blown out of proportion. Kind of like how anti-circumcision people try to convince you babies are constantly dying and your dick no longer works.
I am definitely against spanking. Most people I know who simply got 'spanked' did not grow up damaged, but in many cases corporal punishment can be apart of worse child abuse. I know people who live in messed-up households where spanking turned into worse things as they got older.
In not serious cases, it's just a short-term effect, but not one that I am supportive of. My dad likes to brag about spanking me as a kid, saying that 'that's what good parents do' and that 'that's why I'm so good', etc. I disagree, because it was rare that I ever did anything bad. When I did (and got caught), I'd get spanked for a few minutes, cry like a bay, etc. It didn't really change my behaviour. Furthermore, I still broke rules (rules that I don't consider to be 'bad', like sneaking out with my cousins lol) and never got caught, but that did not lead to me growing up bad.
Another piece of anecdotal evidence is my cousin, who is just a couple of months younger than me. My uncle is vehemently against spanking, and my cousin is as well-behaved as I am.
