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Full Version: Metalcore (aka Metallic Hardcore)
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Why do we have to make two Metalcore threads in two different forums? Why can't we just make one?

Brb, gonna go make a Pop-Punk thread in the Pop forum and in the Punk forum.
Dude, we had this conversation (or at least a conversation as to why I and most Metalheads and Punks make the distinction). Do we really need to rehash it again?

But you make whatever executive decision you want.
I think most is an overstatement, but it's really silly to make multiple threads for the same topic because a bunch of elitists can't agree on the same thing.

It's like making two pop punk threads because one guy refuses to think Green Day and Blink 182 are punk and another thread for the "real deal".

It's really just to make the forums more organized instead of making multiple threads for the same topic.
Ok, that's fine. (I told you it's not elitism behind it though, lol.) Anyway, whatever...people can feel free to discuss those other bands, if they wish.

Edited the OP.
(05-12-2013, 06:26 AM)crazysam23 Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, that's fine. (I told you it's not elitism behind it though, lol.)

Sorry but this is my take on your reasoning behind why you want metalcore split up:

You - "Oh no, one band mixes metal with hardcore and the other band mixes hardcore with metal, they are both metalcore but they are so different we HAVE to split it up."

Me - "how come we have to split metalcore up because the genre clearly either evolved, or people were just inspired by different things, while keeping the core essence of the sound, but we can have vague genres like Alternative where REM and Sonic Youth have less musically in common with each other than kse and Converge and this is acceptable, but God forbid a metalcore band fuses metal with hardcore instead of hardcore with metal."

You - "they're different fans"

/discussion summary

Tell me how that doesn't sound elitist?
lol, why are we rehashing this again?

Also, you're VASTLY misrepresenting my original argument.
i agree with grungie. not that it matters, because god doesn't give a fuck if you agree with him
Metalcore and metallic hardcore are two different genres, btw.

Metalcore, metal with hardcore influences, eg. Bullet For My Valentine
Metallic hardcore - hardcore with metal influences; eg. Stick To You Guns

But so close that only elitists will argue over it. Just dump the metalcore bands under the metal section or metalcore if there is and keep the metallic hardcore in the punk section with the other hxc kids.

I agree, this thread is unnecessary.
Well, I'll present my strongest point here. (In a better format.) I've no desire to turn this into a protracted argument, as it already kind of was one...

Me Wrote:Bands like Converge come from the Hardcore Punk side of things. Bands like KsE come from the Metal side of things. Converge mixes in Metal with their Hardcore. KsE mixes in Hardcore with their Metal. That's the BIGGEST reason as to why they're 1) vastly different in composition AND 2) why they're essentially separate genres.

Metal and Punk have always had this distinction, despite influencing each other heavily. If we were to allow KsE to be the same as Converge, genre-wise; then we'd also have to allow early Void (who basically were the first Crossover Thrash band) and Metallica (who were arguably the first Thrash Metal band) to be the same genre. Thrash Metal was essentially Metal that took the speed and aggression of Hardcore Punk, while Crossover Thrash was essentially Hardcore Punk that took elements of Traditional Heavy Metal. Crossover Thrash eventually influenced '90s style Metalcore and Grindcore.
Anyway, we consider Crossover Thrash and Thrash Metal to be distinct from each other, despite those being a situation where elements of metal and hardcore punk were mixed in two different ways. Similarly, bands like KsE and Converge mix elements of metal and hardcore punk in two different ways. What differentiates them is basically that KsE has more of the metal side, while Converge has more of the hardcore punk side.

If people want to look up things like Crossover Thrash and compare it to Thrash Metal, wikipedia has a good history of the two genres, which both came out roughly within 1-3 years of each other. Below are 2 Youtube examples.

Crossover Thrash:


Thrash Metal:



Obviously, I'm using 2 genres formed in the past in my argument, but it's rather a similar situation. 2 genres, where the 1st was Punk with Metal influences and the 2nd was Metal with Punk influences. Also, Crossover Thrash had an influence on bands in the '90s Metalcore scene, and Thrash Metal had an influence on bands in the '00s Metalcore scene.




My final point (which wasn't included in the original discussion with grungie) is this:
If you can't tell the difference, then do the following:
1) Listen to several of the bands listed in the OP.
2) Then, listen to bands like KsE, AILD, etc.
3) Listen to some Melodic Death Metal -- bands like KsE, AILD, BFMV, etc. basically mixed Melodic Death Metal with a smattering of Hardcore elements.
4) Listen to early '90s Hardcore -- Metalcore came directly out of early '90s Hardcore and mixed those elements with Metal. Metalcore itself developed between '95 and '98 as distinctive subgenre of Hardcore.

By understanding the influences of the 2 sides and understanding the 2 sides themselves, you can understand how they should be considered separate.

(05-12-2013, 08:06 AM)debbie Wrote: [ -> ]Metalcore and metallic hardcore are two different genres, btw.
Actually, Metalcore is short for "Metallic Hardcore", similar to how Hardcore is short for "Hardcore Punk". Punk does that a lot, shortening genre titles.
We can't make too many subgenre folders, it's just not possible with the amount of traffic we get. That's why I stick with my original suggestion. Leave metalcore in the metal section and just move metallic hardcore to the punk section under the hardcore subsection, if such a subsection exist. If not, I think we can make one.

Ppl, who are not a fan of this type of music will not be able to spot the difference, it might be so subtle to them because their ears are not trained. It's like me going up to a stranger that doesn't really drink wine and ask them to differentiate between the two wine's noses and can they taste the difference in terroir?
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