Music Talk Board

(09-13-2016, 05:05 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't say that those things about Slipknot were true. I wouldn't call him a SJW, as he was criticizing aspects of it as well. What I got out of him, was that his town was really fucking weird giving him a weird outlook on things. My only criticism towards him was how he learned about Europe through the Internet's image of it, and he seemed misinformed that America was a multifaceted shithole, and that Europe was this haven. I was hardly the only person that thought this, as I have seen people mention it.

Tbh, I just turned off that he went completely hostile towards me and a few others on UG. He basically treated us like we were shitbags. And when he was agreeing with lolmnt a few times, I just stopped paying attention. /shrug 

(09-13-2016, 05:05 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]After being in Europe, I can say a lot of the bullshit is pretty much the same. Racism and Islamaphobia is a pretty big problem in the UK.

Frankly, considering how Germany got rocked by "Syrian refugees", I don't blame Europe for Islamaphobia.
Also, I do recommend folks at least check out a few passages in the Koran. It's not a nice book. We're talking raping woman, female mutilation, etc., etc. - all advocated by the Koran. Islam is also the only major religion where the founder conquered 2 cities in the name of something holy. Call me hateful if you want, but I've read parts of the Koran and studied the history of it all. 
Do note that I never said "I hate Muslims". I say it's a barbaric religion, more so than others if we examine holy books and teachings. If anyone feels like I'm just splitting hairs, that's your damn problem.

(09-13-2016, 05:05 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]Instead of racism towards blacks and Hispanics, it's gypses and the Welsh (damn sheep fuckers)

To be frank, I don't think any place has as much racism as people try to say. That said, the best way to get rid of racism is basically what Morgan Freeman said:

(09-13-2016, 07:01 PM)crazysam23 Wrote: [ -> ]Tbh, I just turned off that he went completely hostile towards me and a few others on UG. He basically treated us like we were shitbags. And when he was agreeing with lolmnt a few times, I just stopped paying attention. /shrug 

I wasn't there, so I can't really confirm or deny what happened to you. I'm only judging from how he was acting on here, because I wasn't really active on UG when that allegedly happened.

(09-13-2016, 07:01 PM)crazysam23 Wrote: [ -> ]Also, I do recommend folks at least check out a few passages in the Koran. It's not a nice book. We're talking raping woman, female mutilation, etc., etc. - all advocated by the Koran. Islam is also the only major religion where the founder conquered 2 cities in the name of something holy. Call me hateful if you want, but I've read parts of the Koran and studied the history of it all.

Do note that I never said "I hate Muslims". I say it's a barbaric religion, more so than others if we examine holy books and teachings. If anyone feels like I'm just splitting hairs, that's your damn problem.[/size][/color]

Tbh the Bible has some pretty terrible shit in it as well that's been well criticized, so I do agree that the Quran isn't free from criticism as well. Though I will say that because of the difficulty in translating Arabic, there are a lot of pretty bad mistranslations. Also a lot of anti-Islam sites do love citing the version the Wahhabis use. It's like how a lot of internet atheists like to pretend that all Christians act like the WBC and send their kids to Jesus Camp for brainwashing purposes. Just like how normal Christians see on the news or whatever about some dumbasses doing things in the name of Christianity, the normal ones are going "goddammit", the Muslims are doing the same. They hate the assholes just as much as we do. They make the community look bad.

Things like jihad refer to personal struggle, but thanks to pop-culture misinterpretations thanks, to extremist terrorists, it became "common knowledge" to non-Muslims that jihad = holy war. Also if you look up things like Islamic views over FGM, you'll find out that while the Quran does talk about male circumcision, it never mentions FGM. Some practitioners do try to interpret that circumcision means practice it for both genders. Also when it comes to more research regarding FGM, you find out that not only do most Muslim countries not practice it, it's mostly relegated to Africa and varies between the different ethnicities in Africa. Hell Ethiopia practices it, and they're a mostly Christian country.

Also regarding Islamaphobia in Europe, a lot of it doesn't really have much to do with what you're criticizing. A lot of it is straight up racism. Hell, my friend was at the Heathrow Airport (the big one in London), and he saw a couple of Sikhs waiting to get on, and he heard people whispering how they were scared of them, because they thought they were ISIS members. His response was "wrong brown people".

Then there's times where Muslims are at a restaurant and they get shit on for not wanting pork based dishes, or some assholes thought they were edgy and cool for nailing a slab of bacon onto the doors of the local mosque like he was Martin Luther posting his thesis. It's not like these guys were Syrian refugees, they were people who've been in the UK for quite awhile. So it's just racist assholes being... well racist assholes. Luckily the law is giving the racist assholes their comeuppance.

(09-13-2016, 09:03 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-13-2016, 07:01 PM)crazysam23 Wrote: [ -> ]Tbh, I just turned off that he went completely hostile towards me and a few others on UG. He basically treated us like we were shitbags. And when he was agreeing with lolmnt a few times, I just stopped paying attention. /shrug 

I wasn't there, so I can't really confirm or deny what happened to you. I'm only judging from how he was acting on here, because I wasn't really active on UG when that allegedly happened.  

Fair enough.

(09-13-2016, 09:03 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-13-2016, 07:01 PM)crazysam23 Wrote: [ -> ]Also, I do recommend folks at least check out a few passages in the Koran. It's not a nice book. We're talking raping woman, female mutilation, etc., etc. - all advocated by the Koran. Islam is also the only major religion where the founder conquered 2 cities in the name of something holy. Call me hateful if you want, but I've read parts of the Koran and studied the history of it all.

Do note that I never said "I hate Muslims". I say it's a barbaric religion, more so than others if we examine holy books and teachings. If anyone feels like I'm just splitting hairs, that's your damn problem.[/size][/color]

Tbh the Bible has some pretty terrible shit in it as well that's been well criticized,

A lot of the stuff in the Bible requires context, as is the case with any book that is the defining holy book for a religion.

Although, I believe, for example, it was Jesus who said, "He who is free from sin, cast the first stone" when the people brought an adulterous woman to him to be judged. (Btw, read that passage; the people didn't blame the man in that passage. Interesting, huh?) In other words, you can't judge others for sin if you yourself aren't holy according to the Bible. The concept of holiness of self, in relation to a holy God, is a key concept to the Bible.

(09-13-2016, 09:03 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ] so I do agree that the Quran isn't free from criticism as well. Though I will say that because of the difficulty in translating Arabic, there are a lot of pretty bad mistranslations. Also a lot of anti-Islam sites do love citing the version the Wahhabis use. It's like how a lot of internet atheists like to pretend that all Christians act like the WBC and send their kids to Jesus Camp for brainwashing purposes. Just like how normal Christians see on the news or whatever about some dumbasses doing things in the name of Christianity, the normal ones are going "goddammit", the Muslims are doing the same. They hate the assholes just as much as we do. They make the community look bad.

That's all good and fine. Except the Koran actually advocates stuff like what Wahhabis say, regardless of version. The original Arabic says that. It's not a matter of translation. Regardless of translation, things like raping women, female mutilation, beating the shit out of your wife...all of that is allowed in the Koran or the Hadith (consider a supplement to the Koran). Go ahead and read it, in any version.

(09-13-2016, 09:03 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]Things like jihad refer to personal struggle, but thanks to pop-culture misinterpretations thanks, to extremist terrorists, it became "common knowledge" to non-Muslims that jihad = holy war. 

No. That's not the way any version of the Koran states it as. It actually includes both definitions, depending on context. 

There's also the concept of Taqiya (be sure to scroll down to the section regarding the Modern Debate on Taqiya), which is an interesting practice applied when talking to a non-Muslim. It could be argued practicing taqiya while not under duress is a misinterpretation, but it's interesting that the Koran allows one to lie about their religious beliefs. 

(09-13-2016, 09:03 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]Also if you look up things like Islamic views over FGM, you'll find out that while the Quran does talk about male circumcision, it never mentions FGM. Some practitioners do try to interpret that circumcision means practice it for both genders. Also when it comes to more research regarding FGM, you find out that not only do most Muslim countries not practice it, it's mostly relegated to Africa and varies between the different ethnicities in Africa. Hell Ethiopia practices it, and they're a mostly Christian country.

I'm looking at the Koran, not Googling things. But if you want a source, it comes from the Hadith, which Muslims consider a supplement to the Koran, as I said. https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadit...Mutilation

(09-13-2016, 09:03 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]Also regarding Islamaphobia in Europe, a lot of it doesn't really have much to do with what you're criticizing. A lot of it is straight up racism. Hell, my friend was at the Heathrow Airport (the big one in London), and he saw a couple of Sikhs waiting to get on, and he heard people whispering how they were scared of them, because they thought they were ISIS members. His response was "wrong brown people".

Unfortunate.  :|

(09-13-2016, 09:03 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]Then there's times where Muslims are at a restaurant and they get shit on for not wanting pork based dishes,

Well, I vehemently disagree with this attitude, partly because Jews were not wanting pork before it was cool (   ) - but mostly because judging folks on their diet is silly. That said, it does irk me when groups like CAIR sue because a restaurant labeled "X Pork BBQ" only has pork. (That's a Facetious example, but you get my point.) You never saw Jews suing over dietary stuff. My point is, neither reaction is cool. 

 

(09-13-2016, 09:03 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]or some assholes thought they were edgy and cool for nailing a slab of bacon onto the doors of the local mosque like he was Martin Luther posting his thesis. It's not like these guys were Syrian refugees, they were people who've been in the UK for quite awhile. So it's just racist assholes being... well racist assholes.

Definitely sound like it.

(09-13-2016, 09:30 PM)crazysam23 Wrote: [ -> ]Go ahead and read it, in any version.

I have 3, and all three have it in both English and Arabic, while I don't know Arabic, my sister is a professionally trained linguist, and will tell you that one of them likes to add extra stuff in the English version that isn't written in Arabic. Like how there are passages where Jews and Christians are straight up name dropped for shit talking purposes, despite neither being there in Arabic.

I also wouldn't advise in trusting WikiIslam, as it's pretty infamous for being a website dedicated to not only criticism, but also for distorting the translations and presenting information in a derogatory form. IE they have an agenda. I wouldn't say it's entirely unaccurate, but like Wikipedia, take things with a grain of salt.

(09-14-2016, 05:40 AM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-13-2016, 09:30 PM)crazysam23 Wrote: [ -> ]Go ahead and read it, in any version.

I have 3, and all three have it in both English and Arabic, while I don't know Arabic, my sister is a professionally trained linguist, and will tell you that one of them likes to add extra stuff in the English version that isn't written in Arabic. Like how there are passages where Jews and Christians are straight up name dropped for shit talking purposes, despite neither being there in Arabic.

Then, to be frank, you should already know this stuff...

Islam is not nice. Read the copies you have.

(09-14-2016, 05:40 AM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]I also wouldn't advise in trusting WikiIslam, as it's pretty infamous for being a website dedicated to not only criticism, but also for distorting the translations and presenting information in a derogatory form. IE they have an agenda. I wouldn't say it's entirely unaccurate, but like Wikipedia, take things with a grain of salt.

I don't. The point was showing the Hadith passages involved.

(09-14-2016, 04:47 PM)crazysam23 Wrote: [ -> ]Then, to be frank, you should already know this stuff...

Know what? I stated the translation added extra shit that wasn't there in the original language. That copy just fucked up, because the publisher was stupid enough to have it side by side with Arabic. I was just lucky enough to have someone that's certified in knowing Arabic lying around.

It's kind of like someone bitching about an anime dub fucking up a scene (or professionally translated manga), and they cite a manga fan-translation as the "truth", but don't realize that it was never actually there in Japanese. Mind you this actually happens a lot.

The fact that they added words doesn't actually matter, as you have other translations that don't, apparently. You can read it without the added words. The intent is the point. And the intent is not nice, when it comes to the Koran and non-Muslims. The "convert or die" type of stuff is in the later parts of the Koran. In general (but not always), later parts supercede the earlier.

It makes total sense that it's the Quran's fault for the translator adding in things that weren't there in Arabic.

Anyway, this thread is waaaaaay off topic, so I'm closing it, because I feel bad that Mac was trying to do something nice here.

(09-12-2016, 09:36 PM)crazysam23 Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, we were never huge...

Speak for yourself u.u

i also recently rediscovered this place.