(08-21-2013, 01:04 AM)JoelCarli Wrote: [ -> ]Problem being that it doesn't make you happier. You'll always find some tiny kink in your face you dislike. Instead people need psychological help to ease their self-esteem issues.
I don't think that's true at all. I gained a little weight about a year ago and was unhappy because of it. I didn't like looking like that. Now I've lost it all and am in the best shape I've ever been in. Much happier with how I look now.
I would never do it personally. I'm just not a cheater. If other people aren't bothered that they're cheating, I guess thats fine. But really I think that if people are unhappy with the way they look, they should just go to the fucking gym and eat better. No it won't make your nose look better, but if you have a hot body, people will probably not care what your nose looks like.
(08-21-2013, 12:54 AM)BobSacamano Wrote: [ -> ]The only thing that kinda bothers me is that it's similar to genetically engineering your kid to have a perfect face.
Really its kinda the opposite. Because if you get plastic surgery to look "pretty", you still have "ugly" genes. Its cheating natural selection and tipping the balance in favor of "ugly" people, which is a terrible idea. Because if everyone got plastic surgery then everyone's kids would keep getting uglier and uglier and needing more and more plastic surgery.
(08-21-2013, 01:14 AM)JoelCarli Wrote: [ -> ]I must say, that is a good point. Although bipolar disorder is exactly that. A disorder. It actually is a problem, and it affects everyone. Looks aren't a disorder or an actual problem for the most part. Honestly, practically all the people I've seen, on TV or off who has had aesthetic surgery looked flawless before, and sometimes better. But I agree, you make a good point.
Yeah a lot of people get it where it isn't needed at all and that's unfortunate. But the fact is, which is more unfortunate, is that so many things can be denied to you because there might be something that's considered "wrong" about your face. Or at least it's easy to think that.
(08-21-2013, 01:16 AM)Danjo Wrote: [ -> ]I would never do it personally. I'm just not a cheater. If other people aren't bothered that they're cheating, I guess thats fine. But really I think that if people are unhappy with the way they look, they should just go to the fucking gym and eat better. No it won't make your nose look better, but if you have a hot body, people will probably not care what your nose looks like.
What makes you think of it as cheating? Like I said, life isn't fair to begin with. If they're trying to make it more fair with things they've probably earned (money) rather than things they were born with (genes) it seems okay to me.
Also I have a pretty good bod but my nose is pretty shitty. I don't think it quite evens it out.
(08-21-2013, 12:54 AM)BobSacamano Wrote: [ -> ]The only thing that kinda bothers me is that it's similar to genetically engineering your kid to have a perfect face.
(08-21-2013, 01:16 AM)Danjo Wrote: [ -> ]Really its kinda the opposite. Because if you get plastic surgery to look "pretty", you still have "ugly" genes. Its cheating natural selection and tipping the balance in favor of "ugly" people, which is a terrible idea. Because if everyone got plastic surgery then everyone's kids would keep getting uglier and uglier and needing more and more plastic surgery.
I don't think this is a thing to worry about.
(08-21-2013, 01:15 AM)WCPhils Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think that's true at all. I gained a little weight about a year ago and was unhappy because of it. I didn't like looking like that. Now I've lost it all and am in the best shape I've ever been in. Much happier with how I look now.
But you went out and exercised. Some people just go get a liposuction. You're happier because you're healthier, primarily. At least, I would think, at the base. Of course, what you look like also improves, I'm not against that notion. I'm just against "unnecessary" and permanent changes.
(08-21-2013, 01:25 AM)BobSacamano Wrote: [ -> ] (08-21-2013, 01:14 AM)JoelCarli Wrote: [ -> ]I must say, that is a good point. Although bipolar disorder is exactly that. A disorder. It actually is a problem, and it affects everyone. Looks aren't a disorder or an actual problem for the most part. Honestly, practically all the people I've seen, on TV or off who has had aesthetic surgery looked flawless before, and sometimes better. But I agree, you make a good point.
Yeah a lot of people get it where it isn't needed at all and that's unfortunate. But the fact is, which is more unfortunate, is that so many things can be denied to you because there might be something that's considered "wrong" about your face. Or at least it's easy to think that.
This is a major beef for me. Waitresses who are denied jobs because their breasts or buttocks aren't perky enough. That's my point; society puts too much importance on looks.
(08-21-2013, 01:25 AM)BobSacamano Wrote: [ -> ] (08-21-2013, 01:16 AM)Danjo Wrote: [ -> ]I would never do it personally. I'm just not a cheater. If other people aren't bothered that they're cheating, I guess thats fine. But really I think that if people are unhappy with the way they look, they should just go to the fucking gym and eat better. No it won't make your nose look better, but if you have a hot body, people will probably not care what your nose looks like.
What makes you think of it as cheating? Like I said, life isn't fair to begin with. If they're trying to make it more fair with things they've probably earned (money) rather than things they were born with (genes) it seems okay to me.
Also I have a pretty good bod but my nose is pretty shitty. I don't think it quite evens it out.
Like we both agree, I've seen people complain about certain body parts of theirs, and they were flawless, at least in my opinion. It's kind of depressing to see them fix what isn't broken by being fake. Especially if the difference is unnoticeable, and even more especially if it is botched.
Again, if your genes give you cancer it's one thing. If they give you a big nose it's another. Wouldn't you want a significant other to love you despite your "faults" (which he or she should love nonetheless) instead of one who doesn't know who you really are? A nosejob is a lie and the tombstone of a still-living burden you carry around. Putting myself into the other person's shoes, I wouldn't want someone to conceal something like that from me. I love who they are. Not what they are. And someone who changes what they are is implicitly lying.
Big nose guy here, by the way
Danjo's notion of cheating is kind of where I'm getting at. I find cheaters unattractive. I'm attracted to (and not just in a physical or romantic sense) a fully real person that doesn't conceal so much. Again, I don't want to outlaw that sort of surgery. I just find that as a matter of principle, it's not exactly right.
I also want to remind everyone that my opinion is still embryonic. Just putting that out there before anyone nails me to the cross lol
how do you feel about makeup joel? Just wondering
I don't know if this fits but I'm definitely getting laser-hair removal at some point in my life if I can afford it. IDGAF; some things are objectively ugly and I don't want to be hideous.
I can understand being more attracted to someone that's comfortable with themself. I just don't think there's any good reason to condemn anyone for doing it if they want.
I mentioned makeup in my original post. It's temporary (MOST IMPORTANT, FUNDAMENTAL POINT), doesn't destroy your body (unless you leave it on overnight and get acne, which is also temporary), and shouldn't be used to "improve" yourself or to please others. Makeup should be used to represent who one is and because one enjoys wearing makeup. A goth shows who she is by applying dark lipstick and eyeshadow. A socialite wears fancy clothing and puts up her hair in a fancy way. A plain Jane is either proud of her natural beauty, even if she's not a hit with the preferred sex, or is indifferent to aesthetics. All of it is temporary and/or reversible.
I also think people put too much importance on makeup to improve beauty.
My major beef is that physical beauty seems glorified to such a dangerous extent that teenage girls kill themselves because of it.
(08-21-2013, 01:48 AM)carlcockatoo Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if this fits but I'm definitely getting laser-hair removal at some point in my life if I can afford it. IDGAF; some things are objectively ugly and I don't want to be hideous.
It fits. That's cool, I'm just, again, more concerned with the glorification of physical beauty.
(08-21-2013, 01:49 AM)BobSacamano Wrote: [ -> ]I can understand being more attracted to someone that's comfortable with themself. I just don't think there's any good reason to condemn anyone for doing it if they want.
Like I said, it's more of a matter of personal principle. Of course there are physical things I'd improve about myself. I don't find myself particularly attractive even though people have told me that I am. But I feel like it's not important, and am comfortable. I embrace who I am because people like me how I am. I mostly worry about intellect and personality, which I would assume is more of an importance than looks.
I'm not trying to condemn anybody. But you seem to get my gist; I'm more attracted to somebody that is comfortable with themselves. I know some people such as Patrick have self-esteem issues with physical beauty. But most of the time, permanent damage to the body is unnecessary and, in my book, "better" paths exist, such as counseling and exercise, depending on the issue.
Plastic surgery is like autotune. If you can't sing for shit but use autotune to be a famous singer, thats cheating. If you naturally look like shit but use plastic surgery to look super hot, thats cheating. Just like fake muscle implants are cheating. And steroids are cheating. I dunno, thats just how I feel about it.
I guess I would feel differently about it if someone had like a deformed face because of a birth defect, or if they really did look really bad. But for a normal looking person who just doesn't like some feature, I don't really like the idea of it. I'm not saying other people can't/shouldn't do it, I'm just saying I'm not really going to like them.
Also, I personally think of makeup along the same lines as fancy clothes. Its something to wear when you want to look better, but not something you should wear all the time. And it should also complement your natural beauty, not change it.
Despite having mixed feelings about it I do pluck my mono-brow, because I just really don't want to look like a caveman, even if my genes say I should.
^ I absolutely agree with the makeup/clothing complementing natural beauty thing. And plucking brows isn't damaging your body at such a level, and it's temporary.
Like I said, an atrocious example such as a birth defect or car accident, I'd feel less bad about, when it comes to aesthetic surgery.