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I don't know if it's fair to criticise people for signing petitions and 'raising awareness'. Of course 'raising awareness' is often code name for not really doing anything at all and just using issues as a fashion statement. When it comes to people who really are just circlejerking on Tumblr, I think the criticism is valid. But signing petitions and 'raising awareness' (and I mean properly) is better than nothing and I'd encourage everyone to do that. The fact is that most people don't have time to be full time activists and this is what I mean by 'literally everyone can do something'.

I hate to relate this to myself again but I've managed to get outright misogynists to support feminism after multiple discussion on the issue. If I can just create a tiny shift in public opinion by challenging the notions of the people immediately around me, I feel like I've at least done something. That's the biggest thing that needs to change in our culture; attitudes (of course once you get into war rape and the drug war and all that it gets even more complicated- infinitely).

I'd like to redirect this topic into something I haven't quite figured out myself, and that's what we can all be doing about these issues. For me, the reason I'm not an actual activist isn't because I'm lazy or because I don't care; it's because I don't know what I can do in my current situation that is actually helpful.

So far all I know that we can do is:

1. The basics: Stand up to bad shit when we see it, try to get the people around us to re-evaluate their positions, etc. This is what I'm already doing but I think we can do more.
2. Donate money and needed items. Another obvious one that I admittedly have done enough of. I can't reasonably do a lot though, and too many people think that putting a dollar in a donation jar justifies having fucked attitudes towards the poor. I have the idea of donating every thing I get over the national average towards charity, but I don't expect to make that much. >_> If I'm ever really rich I'll start my own organisations because I have ideas that I think can make modern philanthropy way more effective. This isn't really 'activism' but still.
3. Write politicians/businesses/police/etc: I consider doing this all the time, but with the big issues it feels like there's already 300 other people doing it and I'd be wasting effort by doing it. I should no longer let this be an excuse.
4. Similarly, try to get articles published on the issues that people will actually read (i.e. not 'Tumblr activism'). I write my thoughts on issues down all the time but I never do anything with them because I'm not sure how to do it correctly. Furthermore, conducting real research involves being directly faced with the issues. I'm willing to do that but I don't know how you go about it.
5. Full on protest and shit: I'm not about to just start aimlessly waiving signs around but I'm more than willing to join a meaningful protest next time there's one in my city.
6. Join activists organisations: There are a few based in my city that deal with local issues. The only thing holding me back is I know my parents will disown me if I ever get involved in this stuff.
7. Just tackle issues head on: This is what I'd really like to do but I don't know how. For example, I want to reduce crime in my city. How can I just fight criminal organisations (especially when there's spill over from the Mexican drug war >_>)? Join the police? I'm not happy about police brutality either. Etc. etc. I don't really know what I can do. If I was rich I could do something to create jobs so people don't turn to crime, provide people safe places to go, etc. But even if I'm a stupid rich kid I don't have the personal funds to do any of that.

Discuss.
edit: ^Dammit Carl.



(08-10-2014, 12:36 PM)T00DEEPBLUE Wrote: [ -> ]This might be a tangent, (I haven't read the whole stream of the conversation yet) but one of the more annoying things these Social Justice movements do is that they promise to solve problems, but their movement is outright under equipped to solve them.

Feminists point out all of these terrible statistics which show that young women are being raped and murdered for not being Islamic, for example. But how on earth is signing petitions and circlejerking on tumblr in an attempt to 'raise awareness' supposed to solve that shit? Women have been treated that way for thousands of years, and they expect that talking about oppression in a blog makes it all magically go away?

That's one of the biggest issues I have with this whole fad, is that nobody actually does anything outside of circlejerking, and keyboard warrioring. When they do convert people, they just join in on the circlejerking. I've questioned a few SJW's on whether they participate in any activism in their community, or just irl in general, and not only do none of say they do, they respond with "it's not worth it".

(08-10-2014, 12:36 PM)T00DEEPBLUE Wrote: [ -> ]It's not even a movement anymore. It's a fashion statement used by people to fuel their false sense of superiority. So a notable portion of the time, saying that they do at least have good intentions doesn't apply.
In their defense, "what's wrong with trying to help people", well... the problem is that you're not actually helping anybody. You're using other peoples' misfortunes to fuel your own ego.

(08-10-2014, 12:36 PM)T00DEEPBLUE Wrote: [ -> ]I get what you're saying, but I think it's unfair. If people have no right to be miserable for the oppression they get because other people have it worse, then logically you have no right to be happy because other people have it better.

That's not what I was trying to get at. You can still be a privileged white person and still feel miserable, I'm talking about the fact that you're a privileged white male, and you're talking to others about being oppression over race. While I'm not saying you can't care, as you should, the issue is when it's pretty obvious that most of them are pretty out of touch with things, like when they try to act like minorities can't succeed in society, and such.

Also it is kind of hilarious to see you use "white privileged cisscum" as an insult, when the person issuing the insult is also a white privileged cisscum.
(08-10-2014, 02:46 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]edit: ^Dammit Carl.

While you're replying I'll ninja you again. 8)
(08-10-2014, 02:55 PM)carlcockatoo Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-10-2014, 02:46 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]edit: ^Dammit Carl.

While you're replying I'll ninja you again. 8)

It's cool, I'm double replying to this. I also see Mac typing, so I'm gonna have a blast. 8)
That awkward moment when we're both looking at who's online. >_>
(08-10-2014, 02:32 PM)carlcockatoo Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if it's fair to criticise people for signing petitions and 'raising awareness'. Of course 'raising awareness' is often code name for not really doing anything at all and just using issues as a fashion statement. When it comes to people who really are just circlejerking on Tumblr, I think the criticism is valid. But signing petitions and 'raising awareness' (and I mean properly) is better than nothing and I'd encourage everyone to do that. The fact is that most people don't have time to be full time activists and this is what I mean by 'literally everyone can do something'.

Idk if that's what Mac is trying to convey, but I'll respond with my own opinions regarding that.

I see nothing wrong with trying to raise awareness, the issue I see, is the methods SJW's are using to "raise awareness". I've already stated my opinion a bazillion times over that aspect, so I'm gonna save everyone time by not having to read that shit again. Let's just say that they're turning serious issues into a joke, and they're so arrogant over it, that they don't realize it looks like a joke to everyone else, and think "you can't handle the truth!".

Basically if the "activists" took this shit seriously, then it would actually be helpful.

(08-10-2014, 02:32 PM)carlcockatoo Wrote: [ -> ]I hate to relate this to myself again but I've managed to get outright misogynists to support feminism after multiple discussion on the issue. If I can just create a tiny shift in public opinion by challenging the notions of the people immediately around me, I feel like I've at least done something. That's the biggest thing that needs to change in our culture; attitudes (of course once you get into war rape and the drug war and all that it gets even more complicated- infinitely).

Well if you're doing the awareness correctly, then kudos to you.

(08-10-2014, 02:32 PM)carlcockatoo Wrote: [ -> ]I'd like to redirect this topic into something I haven't quite figured out myself, and that's what we can all be doing about these issues. For me, the reason I'm not an actual activist isn't because I'm lazy or because I don't care; it's because I don't know what I can do in my current situation that is actually helpful.

Well at least you're honest about it, rather than come up with some superficial excuse like "I don't participate in activism because it's not worth it".

(08-10-2014, 02:32 PM)carlcockatoo Wrote: [ -> ]So far all I know that we can do is:

1. The basics: Stand up to bad shit when we see it, try to get the people around us to re-evaluate their positions, etc. This is what I'm already doing but I think we can do more.
2. Donate money and needed items. Another obvious one that I admittedly have done enough of. I can't reasonably do a lot though, and too many people think that putting a dollar in a donation jar justifies having fucked attitudes towards the poor. I have the idea of donating every thing I get over the national average towards charity, but I don't expect to make that much. >_> If I'm ever really rich I'll start my own organisations because I have ideas that I think can make modern philanthropy way more effective. This isn't really 'activism' but still.
3. Write politicians/businesses/police/etc: I consider doing this all the time, but with the big issues it feels like there's already 300 other people doing it and I'd be wasting effort by doing it. I should no longer let this be an excuse.
4. Similarly, try to get articles published on the issues that people will actually read (i.e. not 'Tumblr activism'). I write my thoughts on issues down all the time but I never do anything with them because I'm not sure how to do it correctly. Furthermore, conducting real research involves being directly faced with the issues. I'm willing to do that but I don't know how you go about it.
5. Full on protest and shit: I'm not about to just start aimlessly waiving signs around but I'm more than willing to join a meaningful protest next time there's one in my city.
6. Join activists organisations: There are a few based in my city that deal with local issues. The only thing holding me back is I know my parents will disown me if I ever get involved in this stuff.
7. Just tackle issues head on: This is what I'd really like to do but I don't know how. For example, I want to reduce crime in my city. How can I just fight criminal organisations (especially when there's spill over from the Mexican drug war >_>)? Join the police? I'm not happy about police brutality either. Etc. etc. I don't really know what I can do. If I was rich I could do something to create jobs so people don't turn to crime, provide people safe places to go, etc. But even if I'm a stupid rich kid I don't have the personal funds to do any of that.

Discuss.
I don't really have much to comment on this.
Oh yeah I already know how you feel about it I'm not trying to annoy you with the same shit over and over. :p But I see what Mac was trying to convey now.

I'm looking into proper stuff in my city now and if I'm willing to have my parents disown me there is stuff I could be doing now. I'll need to sort out some things before I can realistically do anything, but that shouldn't take too long.
Well sometimes you gotta make sacrifices to make a difference, that's all I can say.
True. My mind has been made up.
Now in a few weeks, I'm going to enjoy getting a paycheck out of your tax money so I can buy dumb shit, and spend money on MTB.

So all the Muricans here will know their tax money is going to MTB.